[Your View] Armament Techlock

[Elennanore 2901]

What does this 'your view' hope to address? Because it doesn't actually seem to be able to change anything? This is just a discussion about how plate armor is good, and bows are generally useless within 16 blocks of an opponent.

[Toddbringer 133]

42 minutes ago, Llir said:

i'll add guns when LOTC (the fantasy medieval RP server) dies and we create a fantasy victorian steampunk RP server in its place

Kill the server right now please

[Onnensr 740]

LoTC isn't even medieval anymore. There are gundams ffs, and medieval is boring in comparison to renaissance. Just give us guns!!! Give them to us!!!! I want to spend four emotes loading and charging an arquebus to explode an elf!!!! We already have cannons!!! Are you telling me no one ever thought to make a smaller cannon!?!?!?!

Anyways, plate mail is cool. Historically, it really wasn't all that constrictive to motion, its downside was it was really damn expensive. It was comparatively heavier than ordinary armor, you definitely couldn't swim in it, but you're not crawling around because it's so ludicrously cumbersome. 

Like swords and axes and halberds and spears and whatever else, just make it required to have tangibly -- and make that expensive. Very expensive. Then it becomes an actual flex. 

The ubiquity of plate is only evidence to support LoTC moving into the FUTURE

[CombatRolePlay 1769]

Since lowering emote count for range weapons is undeniably a bad idea scaling wise, can we simply make it so , that within a certain range (depending on the ranged weapon this may vary) , one cannot "Dodge" an incoming arrow?
E.g ( within a 5 block radius, an archer with a short bow will not miss their target)

Obviously this is in the context that the target is out in the open with no cover to run to..

seeing as how fast arrows travel something like this feels fine to me.

 

I believe this is a pretty solid buff for ranged weapons without it effectively making mages useless.

obviously this is subject to testing but I just wanted to give my own take.

 

This does not at all answer the problem with mass plate but giving ranged weapons an accuracy buff is very much needed imo

[Kaiser 1457]

Plate armor is the default due to the fact it's the most bang for your buck. Why make chain when you can wear plate? No downsides to it.

In real life, a full set of plate in medieval times cost good money, and required a skilled smith and the time to make the set. On lotc it's a handful of cheap iron and a crafting bench. Level to entry is nothing, and while most games get around this by limiting plate through skills/traits such as a Strength skill, LoTC doesn't do that. Since we don't want to add that, plate will remain the status quo. That's dumb, but to fix it requires changes that your team (nor any staff team) won't want to make, for better or worse.

 

As for ranged weapons, they're shit, but they're also shit in real life. There weren't any Legolas types in reality. For most of human history bowmen or any ranged weaponry units existed to stand in lines and widdle down infantry from far, far away. Single archers were useless. You wanted QUANTITY of arrows fired at your enemy more than anything else. You'd want 60 decent archers instead of 1 great archer. And you'd be a distance away. English longbows, which had great power and range, went upwards to 200 feet, more if you were strong and skilled with it, AND could puncture plate armor. On LoTC, 1 block is about a meter, so that's 300 blocks away.

No one roleplays shooting arrows from 300 blocks away. No one roleplays against anyone 300 blocks away. If you're an archer, you have a crap bow that can't puncture the armored platemail knight rushing at you from 20 feet away. Good luck. Even if you do hit a shot, you won't do much.

Maybe whoever is reading this finds this truth to be unfun. I'd agree. But to change it you gotta make come big changes to CRP or other factors of LoTC, and none of the community will accept that, nor do the staff seem interested.

[Crwys 28]

1 hour ago, Reckless Banzai Screamer said:

 

 

they will know pain

 

紅葉国一！！！

[Moonish_Imp 190]

1 hour ago, Ewdrawings said:

Define definitively rigid things that the types of Armour are good and bad against perhaps? For example...

Heavy (Plate/Half-Plate);

- Weakness: Heat/Cold, Magic

- Resistant: Physical

 

Medium (Scale/Chain/Hide);

- Weakness: Piercing

- Resistant: Slashing

 

Light (Gambeson/Leather);

- Weakness: Physical

- Resistant: Falling, Heat/Cold, Magic

 

Where they in good faith RP out the damage in accordance with the guideline set.

This. Define what can break plate/get thru and how many emotes it takes. I’ve heard abt/seen a lotta people use plate to tank everything, perform dextrous dodges, run full speed on par w/ a guy w/out armor, backflip up a tree, or scale a cliff w/ their armored hands if they so please.
 

I don’t expect ur avg lotcer to know the ins and outs of an armor that hasn’t been used in centuries. The team should set up a clear guideline that ppl can refer to— even if it’s not ENTIRELY accurate w/ all referenced materials (ie: youtube videos, media, etc).

 

If movement limits aren’t going to be enforced/defined, set up clear strats to beat plate that players can’t argue abt; reference youtube, speculate, or just say “err no, im plated :/“. Smth solid so no 1 gotta ping a mod

 

oh and pls consider setting up a base strength or a base age or smth…… idk the amount of children I’ve seen in plate is absurd 

[Luxury 673]

Speaking strictly on Voidal lore, and specifically how the lore states magic interacts with Plate Armor - Across the board it's baked in that Magic has very little effect on it.

 

My pitch is to buff how ranged weaponry / magic interacts with our Roleplay Plate Armor regardless of real life physics behind Real Life Plate Armor.

 

To my knowledge, a heaping portion of world lore that has real world counterparts acts fundamentally different to one another - Though when it comes to medieval equipment the larpers seem to strong arm it's efficiency in every single question or debate around it.

 

For reference I will cite where plate armor comes into Voidal Lore:

From Earth Evocation

"Rocks may be conjured in [3] emotes [1 connect + 1 charge + 1 cast], able to bruise flesh and fracture bone upon direct contact with unarmoured individuals, though only able to lightly dent plate and cause light bruising at most in the case of an armored opponent. Spike projectiles, meanwhile, require at least [4] emotes to perform [1 connect + 2 charge + 1 cast], and may leave cuts and bruises, with heavy impact of a heavy hammer on armor- but may never pierce through a target."

 

[Three Emotes to do nothing to an Armored Target, or Four Emotes to do unspecified Damage to an Armored Target]

 

"The storm will span in a diameter of ten meters, raining down sharp stalactites and rocks upon those within. These stalactites are only slightly smaller than that of an arrow, able to pierce unarmored or exposed flesh right through, causing terrible dents and bruises upon armored foes, though not piercing these inherently. Such may be maintained for up to [4] emotes after with adequate focus."

 

[Seven Emotes to do nothing to an Armored Target.]

 

From Air Evocation

"The force of this may dent plate and could cause those it makes contact with to stumble back by no more than a meter. It may cause bruising in the area where it makes contact, as if one has received a punch." 

 

[Three Emotes to do nothing to an Armored Target]

 

"Slam: The orb is sent to slam into a single person or object with immense force, capable of blasting back the individual it makes contact with and likely causing a handful of fractures and broken bones to an unarmoured opponent, while an armoured foe may receive a painful bruise and still be thrown back by five meters, though perhaps not broken bones." 

 

[Five Emotes to do nothing to an Armored Target]

 

From Water Evocation

"(Water Whip) ...While more effective against skin when sharp, the whip will shatter when hitting plate, making it near useless against heavily armored foes."

 

[Three Emotes to do nothing to an Armored Target]

 

"Ice spikes may be capable of piercing unarmoured foes just as a regular blade would, but will likely only dent heavy plate, instead leaving a mild bruise where it hit regardless of sharpness."

 

[Three Emotes to do nothing to an Armored Target]

 

"(Ice Storm). . .Targets wearing heavy armor(plate armor or similar) are considered immune to the storm's damage for their first four emotes of being inside of it. After these emotes are met, they begin taking damage as though they just entered it for the first time."

 

[Six Emotes to Bruise a target in Plate Armor]

 

From Fire Evocation

"Enwreathed flames do not bypass or cause burns through armour. Regular clothing does not count as armour."

 

[I have failed to find any interaction with Armor specified in Fire Evocation aside from one line in 'Enwreath' which seems to imply Fire does not have any effect on an Armored Target. Every other citation is for skin contact and flammable materials.]

[Morigung-oog 2733]

The issue is buffing ranged weapons would require work to balance other ranged-related mechanics, tbh I’m indifferent.

[Shorsand 1782]

3 hours ago, Islamadon said:

3. No Combat Rule Changes

- Though technically possible, changes would need to be enforceable serverwide and approved by Moderation/Admins given that it extends beyond ST purview.  

4. No CRP Overhaul

- Necessitates a complete change in ruleset and the way we engage in CRP on the server.

5. No Roll-Based Mechanics

- Necessitates a complete change in ruleset and/or the way we engage in CRP on the server. This would also likely require different team responsibilities and plugin requirements.

 

Without these three being feasible or malleable in any way, there will be no meaningful changes to the current CRP system. Whole thing needs to be broken down and built back up, especially in regards to magic and ST signed items simply due to bloat. Whatever changes that may erupt from the plate/ranged decision are only going to serve to alter a meta slightly and not meaningfully change a broken and unpleasant system. I would move to take this discussion to a higher level and see how feasible and entire combat overhaul would be instead of focusing on nearly non-issues perpetuated by an inherently flawed system that's been coasting off its patchwork roots since 2012.

 

Coincidentally the only engaging and enjoyable form of CRP I have seen is @Islamadon's event system. While it is gamified, it is neutral and doesn't inherently lend a meta in any specific player direction. I think this formula needs to be extrapolated upon server-wide and eventually manifest itself into player-on-player CRP scenarios instead of being relegated to just events.

 

[PrimnyaQuorum 1082]

On Armor, I think a good deal on the problem lies in the general vagueness regarding the strengths or weakness of armor in general, not simply just plate armor. Plate stands out as the most egregious outlier because it offers the greatest protection for the least (effectively, not any) set of weaknesses - everything is weak to being smashed in with a blunt weapon, but plate is immune to almost every, save various forms of magic or techlock weapons that specify they pierce through or bypass the level of protection plate armor provides. The problem, to me, lies in the poorly defined strengths and weaknesses of armor in general, which is only compounded further when the various magical CAs and MAs are introduced into the mix - instead of normal steel plate and your average Joe Highlander, In example, now consider Rokodra which is immune to all kinds of fire except Malflame and accessible to Inferi who can wield said Malflame along with peak strength, or various other CAs with endless stamina/various magics; you start to run into problems quickly. I think a possible way to generally address armor is something of a simple durability system, similiar to what is seen in animii lore - here, blunt and sharp weapons deal various damage to armor in addition to bruising and imparting forcing onto the armor-wearing character up until it would simply break open, exposing whatever was underneath to be directly damaged. Shields could work similarly by this basic durability system, with the various metals influencing how many hits something can take before it breaks away.

 

On Ranged Weapons, I think Bows could benefit from something of a minor buff - someone else has already said it best:

3 hours ago, ichigomaster98 said:

I think a happy medium could be 3 emotes for the first shot, followed by 2 emotes for subsequent shots as long as the bow stays in your hand, a sort of 'connection' action required of equipping your bow.

Slings, Javelins, and other 2-emote Ranged Weapons don't really need a buff - they serve their role as short range, quicker access ranged weapons well enough I believe, and crossbows already function as a heavier form of ranged weaponry. I would say all forms of ranged weapons should have something of a standard unit of ammunition they can carry if its not already enforced, so that ranged characters can't simply spam shots away into a fight. I also think it would be nice if each ranged weapon was given some sort of zone or area based on what weapon it is where dodging, or simply moving out of the way is not a option unless the character being shot at has a lore-approved way of doing so (Translocation, Heighted Dexterity, etc), as well as all ranged weapons having the same grace range a few meters infront of the character using the ranged weapon where hitting their target is assured if the target lacks a lore-approved means of dodging, given the close range - I think both options would provided ranged characters something of a niche, given how this is already started in techlock with the Recurve bow.

 

3 hours ago, Islamadon said:

Why spend three emotes (or more) loading a bow when a pesky magician can air deflect/teleport, or a knight can sidestep/block?

 

Frankly if a knight is just side-stepping Bow/Crossbow shots they should be reported for powergaming, plate armor doesn't make you Spider-Man.

 

I think the best rationale is that mages expend a resource to nullify things - To cast spells, a mage has to expend some magical resource. They do not simply get to avoid taking damage for free with a *dodges emote, and can easily be worn down with numbers, a prolonged fight, some foresight and strategy, or having some Anti-Magic. A Knight, in this example, isn't expending any resource - there's no stamina resource, there's no enforced rolling metric and it's heavily implied that it's not up for consideration, and as stated above, there's no penalty to wearing plate armor which already renders you immune to just about every ranged (mundane or magic) weapon on LoTC or doing a *dodge emote. In my opinion, if you're already able to tank a few arrows to your arrow, you should be giving up your ability to dodge out of the way.

 

 

[Aesopian 1177]

2 hours ago, Kaiser said:

Plate armor is the default due to the fact it's the most bang for your buck. Why make chain when you can wear plate? No downsides to it.

In real life, a full set of plate in medieval times cost good money, and required a skilled smith and the time to make the set. On lotc it's a handful of cheap iron and a crafting bench. Level to entry is nothing, and while most games get around this by limiting plate through skills/traits such as a Strength skill, LoTC doesn't do that. Since we don't want to add that, plate will remain the status quo. That's dumb, but to fix it requires changes that your team (nor any staff team) won't want to make, for better or worse.

 

As for ranged weapons, they're shit, but they're also shit in real life. There weren't any Legolas types in reality. For most of human history bowmen or any ranged weaponry units existed to stand in lines and widdle down infantry from far, far away. Single archers were useless. You wanted QUANTITY of arrows fired at your enemy more than anything else. You'd want 60 decent archers instead of 1 great archer. And you'd be a distance away. English longbows, which had great power and range, went upwards to 200 feet, more if you were strong and skilled with it, AND could puncture plate armor. On LoTC, 1 block is about a meter, so that's 300 blocks away.

No one roleplays shooting arrows from 300 blocks away. No one roleplays against anyone 300 blocks away. If you're an archer, you have a crap bow that can't puncture the armored platemail knight rushing at you from 20 feet away. Good luck. Even if you do hit a shot, you won't do much.

Maybe whoever is reading this finds this truth to be unfun. I'd agree. But to change it you gotta make come big changes to CRP or other factors of LoTC, and none of the community will accept that, nor do the staff seem interested.

heres dah answer btw 

 

could always buff ranged weapons with a percentage chance to penetrate plate 

[Onnensr 740]

31 minutes ago, Shorsand said:

Without these three being feasible or malleable in any way, there will be no meaningful changes to the current CRP system. Whole thing needs to be broken down and built back up, especially in regards to magic and ST signed items simply due to bloat. Whatever changes that may erupt from the plate/ranged decision are only going to serve to alter a meta slightly and not meaningfully change a broken and unpleasant system. I would move to take this discussion to a higher level and see how feasible and entire combat overhaul would be instead of focusing on nearly non-issues perpetuated by an inherently flawed system that's been coasting off its patchwork roots since 2012.

A complete rebuild is the only way, and it won't happen. We've hit the ceiling of CRP.

[Sarven 1735]

calamity

[Java17 1355]

Dracanium bows require 5 emotes to shoot a mundane flaming arrow.

Plz fix !